Comments on: The Other Secret Jews

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By: b hight

b hight — Wed, 05 Jan 2011 02:05:00 +0000

I am looking for any fairly recent book about crypto Jews or Jewish influence in current Turkish politics and commerce; mentioned to me recently but no specific book was mentioned. Please send me references so that I can read/study this topic. Thank you

By: motokosoma

motokosoma — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 01:55:58 +0000

The Dönme have to be the most beleaguered religious sect in modern history. They are considered by Jews as apostate traitors, and by conventional Muslims as crypto-Jews.

By: Voula Tantanozi

Voula Tantanozi — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:19:00 +0000

RE: “In 1912, the city was conquered by Greece, which changed the name to Thessaloniki and set about expelling the Muslim population”……
Such a lot of history in just a sentence
1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange_of_populations_between_Greece_and_Turkey

2.Crossing the Aegean: An Appraisal of the 1923 Compulsory Population Exchange between Greece and Turkey Book by Renée Hirschon; 2003.

By: Voula Tantanozi

Voula Tantanozi — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:03:38 +0000

RE:”If they had been allowed to remain, they would have come under Nazi occupation during World War II, and given the Nazi racial definition of Jewishness, they would certainly have been sent to Auschwitz.”
….Indeed, just like the 45.000 Salonika-Jews who died in the concentration camps and who do not even get a mention here.

By: Voula Tantanozi

Voula Tantanozi — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:00:04 +0000

RE:“In 1912, the city was conquered by Greece, which changed the name to Thessaloniki”
“All variations for the city’s name derive from the original (and current) appellation in Greek: Θεσσαλονίκη, literally translating to “Thessaly-victory” and in origin the name of a princess, Thessalonike of Macedon, who was so named because she was born on the day of the Macedonian victory at the Battle of Crocus Field. The alternative name Salonica, formerly the common name used in some western European languages, is derived from a variant form Σαλονίκη (Saloníki) in popular Greek speech”.from Wikipedia

By: Barry Kapandji

Barry Kapandji — Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:18:45 +0000

http://www.hillel.upenn.edu/kedma/08/davis.pdf

Sabbateans & the Search for Religion and Identity in Turkey

Lauren Davis

By: William

William — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 12:29:03 +0000

So actually, then, Obama is a Donme, right?

By: Paul Ogden

Paul Ogden — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 20:11:05 +0000

Hillel Halkin has twice written on the likely Jewish/Donme origin of Kemal Ataturk.

http://www.nysun.com/opinion/ataturks-turkey-overturned/58997/

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-2268322.html

By: neddy Lasso

neddy Lasso — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 02:25:15 +0000

all religions are stupid, separate people….. made them hates each other. There is ONLY ONE GOD and need no name. No one has authority to force another person to choose a specific belief. I despise them………

By: elixelx

elixelx — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:08:50 +0000

A lot of this is a re-hash of the work of the most under-utilised of Jewish Scholars–even his wiki entry is daunting–Gershom Scholem.
If you really want to understand the Donme he is the authority.
As a counterpoint: in the late 50′s and early 60′s Americo Castro and other Spanish historians began reviewing the ancestries of various Spanish men of letters and entrepreneurs.
Of course they soon found the Jewish “backgrounds” of Cervantes and Columbus, but the list went far beyond that, and included some of the most famous Spanish playwrights (Lope de Vega), music composers (Falla), and the Senior family (businessmen) and Sta. Teresa.
So it should come as no surprise that the Turkish heirarchy, including Ataturk, had some Jewish strain in their background, but I draw the line at Erdogan, who is a Momzer, and therefore not Jewish!

By: Okan Alemdar

Okan Alemdar — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 03:26:32 +0000

@Sharon, Sharon, upon arriving at Istanbul, you will find a lot of active Synagogues dating back to 16th century especially in Tesvikiye (Jewish suburb)area. Izmir has a notable number of active Synagogues. However Anatolian part of Turkey has the oldest synagogues, especially the Manisa (Magnasia) synagogue dates back to 223-187 BCE. Check “histoy of Jews in Turkey” article in Wikipedia for more information.

By: Okan Alemdar

Okan Alemdar — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 03:21:39 +0000

Barry is right. In Ottoman society, each ethno-religious group had their own courts, the decision of these courts were executed by Ottoman Empire. Ottoman Jews found Sabatai Zevi guilty of herecy/blasphemy and therefore recommended his execution, therefore Ottoman Authorities had only 2 options for Zevi, death or conversion. He opted for the second option.

By: Sharon M. Blumberg

Sharon M. Blumberg — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 21:01:45 +0000

My husband and I are heading to Turkey this summer for a few days after a cruise. Can any of you make some suggestions of Jewish sites that we should Not miss?
Thank you…..

By: Barry Kapandji

Barry Kapandji — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:25:35 +0000

Hi Sergey, contrary to what you may think, Turkey has been secular since the 1920′s and (semi) democratic since the 1950′s. The execution of apostates from Islam was made illegal in the Ottoman Empire in 1839. (171 years ago) In Turkey today everyone has the right and freedom to change his/her religion or belief. Let’s not confuse Turkey with Saudi Arabia.

By: Barry Kapandji

Barry Kapandji — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:04:54 +0000

I beg to differ. If you read Rifat Bali’s book, “A Scapegoat for All Seasons: The Donmes or Crypto-Jews of Turkey” Chapter 6; The Nazi Perceptions of the Donmes, pp.213-222 and Marc David Baer’s book: The Donme; Jewish Converts, Muslim Revolutionaries and Secular Turks” pp.220-221 you’ll see that according to the Nazis the Donmes were Jews, pure and simple. The claim that Donmes collaborated with the Nazis is ludicrous. A Donme woman whose father didn’t lose his property in Berlin doesn’t “prove” anything.

By: Jack Cohen

Jack Cohen — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:15:55 +0000

I believe you are wrong in your final comment about Nazi persecution. Donme or Sabbateans were able to register with the German authorities before WWII that they were NOT Jews. In fact some collaborated with the Nazis. I met by chance a Donme woman whose father had a print shop in Berlin, but was allowed to leave before the war and returned after the war, and his property was intact.

By: rifat bali

rifat bali — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:55:08 +0000

Hi Jerrold
Another book is my own one: A Scapegoat for all Seasons: The Doenmes or Crypto Jews of Turkey. If you send me an email to
rifat.bali@gmail.com I can provide you with the pertinent details

By: Sergey Kadinsky

Sergey Kadinsky — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:07:41 +0000

There is a big difference between descendants of Spanish conversos and descendants of the Donmeh.

In much of the Muslim world, abandonment of Islam is still a crime, so the notion of thousands of modern Turks asking about their Jewish ancestry is unrealistic.

By: Barry Kapandji

Barry Kapandji — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 21:52:20 +0000

Hi Jerrold, most publications are in Hebrew and Turkish but lately there’s been a considerable number of scholarly articles and a few books on the subject in English as well. I can recommend you a good list, but it would be easier if you just sent me an email so that I could get back to you with further details. barry.kapandji@gmail.com

By: A Cassel

A Cassel — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:38:28 +0000

“Salonika, City of Ghosts” by Mark Mazower contains an extensive discussion of the Sabbatean heresy and its aftermath.
http://www.amazon.com/Salonica-City-Ghosts-Christians-1430-1950/dp/0375412980

By: Jerrold Katz

Jerrold Katz — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:59:03 +0000

Can you recommend any other publications on the Donme or the Sabbatians as they are sometimes called?

Thanks