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Who Can Follow These Rules?

This week’s Talmud reading prompts strikingly contemporary questions about observance and belief

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(Photoillustration Tablet Magazine; original photo My name's axel/Flickr)

And the other residents of the courtyard? “They,” Abaye says, “do not care if there is a shituf in the mavoi.” Now, this answer could be taken in one of two ways. Perhaps the neighbors don’t care if there is a shituf because they have no intention of carrying into the alleyway on Shabbat. But I wonder if there isn’t also the suggestion that they don’t care because they’re not too particular about observing Shabbat laws. This raises an interesting question about the relation of Rabbah and Abaye to the average Jew of their time. Could it be that all the details of shituf and eruv mattered only to a self-selected Jewish elite?

That suspicion deepens in Eruvin 69a, when the rabbis discuss whether it is permitted to make an eruv with Jews who do not accept rabbinic authority. This could mean a Sadducee—that is, a member of a sect that rejects the Oral Law on principle. But it could also be, in the words of a baraita, “a brashly irreligious person.” Rav Huna defined such a person: “Who is considered an irreligious Jew? This is anyone who publicly desecrates Shabbat.” A Shabbat violator, the Gemara goes on to explain, is equivalent to an idolator, since it can be assumed that a Jew who violates one category of laws will violate them all.

The key word here is “publicly.” Thus we learn about “a person who went out publicly on Shabbat wearing a bag of spices. As soon as he saw Rabbi Yehudah Nesiah approaching, he covered it.” Yehudah’s response was that “A person like this may relinquish rights.” In other words, the man was aware that he was violating Shabbat by wearing a bag of spices (because a bag is not a normal adornment, this would be considered a kind of carrying). But since he was sufficiently ashamed to want to hide his infraction from Rabbi Yehudah, he could still be considered Jewish for the purpose of making an eruv. If, on the other hand, the man had been a Sadducee or a “brash” freethinker, who had worn his bag of spices openly and unapologetically, he would not be eligible for participating in an eruv.

What is at stake here is the difference between a sinner and a heretic. A sinner accepts the system of law under which he is condemned. Even if he is a hypocrite, like the man who hid his bag of spices, his very hypocrisy is, as the saying goes, a tribute that vice pays to virtue. But a heretic flatly denies that virtue is virtue; he undermines the entire legal system by rejecting its authority. Thus we learn in Eruvin 69b that “we accept sacrifices from Jewish sinners” but not “from an irreligious Jew, or someone who makes libations of wine to an idol or someone who desecrates the Sabbath publicly.”

At the time the Talmud was written, of course, there was no such word or concept as secularism. But the case of the modern secular Jew seems highly relevant here. Such a Jew rejects the divine authority of the Torah and Talmud and replaces it with the authority of human reason and custom. Like me, the secular Jew might read the Talmud out of respect and intellectual curiosity, even claim it as a part of his Jewish heritage. (For another secular take on Daf Yomi, check out the charming website, which renders each daf as a haiku.) But he does not live by it, and that makes all the difference. He is, in the Talmud’s eyes, an idolator—an idolator of reason. Reading passages like this in the Talmud helps me to understand why there is such distrust between ultra-Orthodox and secular Jews and why calls for Jewish unity so often fall on deaf ears.


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41953 says:

Kirsh writes:

“A Shabbat violator, the Gemara goes on to explain, is equivalent to an idolator, since it can be assumed that a Jew who violates one category of laws will violate them all.”

And as Kirsh admits, “He is, in the Talmud’s eyes, an idolator—an idolator of reason.”
So this condemnation would apply to him.

What does this say about the morality of the Talmudic rabbis?
And of those who subscribe to the laws of the Talmud today? Are we secular jews “idolators” in their eyes?

PAL669 says:

Kirsh is a bit off. In the Talmudic view, an idolator, is one who knows and understands, yet deliberately disobeys the Torah. He is not a “brash freethinker” but one who has no respect for tradition and the laws, and after fully understanding the implications of his actions, decides to publicly desecrate, e.g. the Sabbath. This is equivalent in modern times, to someone deliberately running a red light. The former has put society and its moral cohesiveness in danger by flouting the rules and the later has put it himself and others in physical danger. Both are morally equivalent if you wish to preserve a Jewish society, as both have to be obeyed. I don’t think most Jews purposely or knowingly, are such “idolators”.

41953 says:

No, this is the equivalent in modern times of someone who drives on the Sabbath, works on the Sabbath, turns on electricity on the Sabbath or engages in dozens of other activities prohibited by Jewish law on the Sabbath because these laws make no sense to them.
How can running a red light, which can result in injury or death compare?

And if there’s no one else at the intersection? Then indeed the only reason to obey the red light is because it’s the law.
Same with the Shabbat regulations, then.

N. Mara Czarnecki says:

Much easier to follow Tanakh instead of P’rushiyin, isn’t it?

N. Mara Czarnecki says:

Futhermore, they made Eleazar ben-Hyrcanus into G-d (“Again he said to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let it be proved from Heaven!’ Whereupon a Heavenly Voice cried out: ‘Why do ye dispute with R. Eliezer, seeing that in all matters the halachah agrees with him!’”–Bava Metzi’a 59b). So, are you really secular or just looking to follow Tanakh?

Grigalem says:

God?? Are you serious?? Because a voice said halakha agrees with him??

At most a prophet. Who lost.

Who made him God? With what authority? When did this happen? Why does no one else know about this for the last 2000 years?

N. Mara Czarnecki says:

They haven’t really studied the Talmud.

Grigalem says:

But they post about it all day every day as if some book they read in college told them all they need to know about it.

If I thought they would respond to challenges or to upgraded and accurate facts, I would post a lot more. I have very little patience for knocking my head against a brick wall.

Though it would be nice if people responded to what Mr. Kirsch actually writes about rather than trying to foist their uninformed ideological blather where it does no good.


a dude with a BS degree in Religious Studies from Boston U … who knows he knows very very little, but keeps on learning.

N. Mara Czarnecki says:

Look it up yourself then. The Soncino Talmud is right here:

Grigalem says:

If you want to believe that “they” made Eleazar ben-Hyrcanus into “G-d”, then there is rather little I can say at this point.

Have you considered converting to Christianity?

N. Mara Czarnecki says:

To be honest, I am Messianic and consider myself a Messianic Karaite, and just found out that my dad comes from quite a few mishpachot-P’rushiyin a while back. I can only thank Yehovah that he saved me from following P’rushi Yahadut.

Grigalem says:

Well it was obvious that you were a Christian and not a Jew, and it was obvious as well that you are rather deluded about Jews, Judaism, the Talmud, rabbis, and God. I mean G-d. I mean Rabbi Eliezer ben Hyrcanus. I mean Jesus. I mean Yehovah. I mean the mysterious “they” that worship Eliezer as God. I mean G-d. I mean Jesus. I mean good luck with Daf Yomi for the next seven years.

Felix Tejeda says:

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dantheman08822 says:

I read both the Talmud and the New Testament out of intellectual curiosity. Nevertheless, I’m proud to be a Baraita.

dantheman08822 says:

Even the best driver will occasionally have a blind spot when it comes to oncoming cars and cross traffic. Therefore, it’s mandatory to stop for a red light and stop at a stop sign, and look both ways, even if the law were enforced by a cop merely wagging his finger at you and telling you, “Don’t do it again.”
Thus it’s not like the Shabbat regulations at all. Violating Shabbat regulations is potentially injurious to nobody except the modern-day Pharisees who believe in the letter but not the spirit of the law.

Facebook User says:

Yes, the argument that “the Pharisees believe in the letter but not the spirit of the law” has a long and disreputable history. One famous fellow who argued along those lines ended up becoming the central figure of a religion which, sadly, has far too often kept to neither the letter nor the spirit of any law.

There is also something a little solipsistic in supposing that just because you don’t see the use of something means that there isn’t one. “There are more things in heaven and earth, Dan, than are dreamt of in your philosophy”…

dantheman08822 says:

No more disreputable than Haredi Jews, many of whom keep to neither the spirit nor the letter of the law.


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Who Can Follow These Rules?

This week’s Talmud reading prompts strikingly contemporary questions about observance and belief

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