Tell me, why do you refuse to acknowledge any component to this discussion other than the legal one? Is it so difficult to conceive that the law may not be all there is to it? When you say that “citizens” should be treated with respect, do you genuinely believe that it is only the government that has that obligation? Is it possible, just maybe, that “citizens” should also treat each other with respect? Is “respect” just limited to “not infringing on their civil rights” or does it have a broader meaning?

Time for you to join the “get a clue” club.

“Decency” also means treating citizens with respect and not arbitrarily infringing on their civil rights. We addressed this outrage, and we won. What have you done for the Constitution…ever?

Now, go wag your self-righteous finger at someone else, and stop cyber-bullying me.

Jordana, your comments are abhorrent to me. Fighting for civil rights — “tragically misplaced”?? Someone had to stand up for the Constitution. That person was me. I’m sorry you feel ashamed about such things. Do you live in the United States? It doesn’t sound like it.

And, for the 63rd time this month, I will say this again: The video was put up AFTER the case was filed, because of the public debate. The NYT article was inaccurate; the offer to take the video down was BEFORE the case was filed, but the alleged victim WANTED IT KEPT UP. Read the case. Does that sound like “cyberbullying”?

Jordana, get a clue.

I certainly know what The Judge is going say to them: How you treat others is how I am going to treat you. Beware.

1- The grandfather I referred to was the original Cohen, Aharon. Not your father’s father. So I hope you read legal papers more carefully than you read my words.

2- I am a great champion of the limits on governmental powers. You simply refuse to acknowledge a Jewish discussion of an issue with Jewish legal implications in a Jewish magazine that is addressed on Jewish terms. Defending rights are great. Keep on, keeping on. But it is in and remains revealing how you possess no humility to even acknowledge the Jewish components involved. That, sir, is indeed a disgrace to the progenitor of your entire family line. And I would bet that the knowledge you possess of Aharon HaKohen Ohaiv Shalom could maybe fill a thimble.

3- Insults? Have you no sensibility to at least the tenor of all your postings?

4- For everyone else who actually cares about even being at risk of hurting someone through speech, the all-time expert on Lashon Hara, the Chofetz Chaim (ever heard of him, Evan?) made clear that when one does something in the public arena, they forfeit the protections and remedies that the laws of Lashon Hara provide.

5- Finally, where there is a conflict between man-made American laws, which are not based upon truth or justice (an act can be permitted in one local and felonious in another) and can be changed at the whim of an executive finding or the changed in the balance of political power or the make-up of a court, and Divine Law which has endured for 3700 years and is based solely upon truth and justice, I’ll take Halacha any day of the week.

Oh, BTW, I’ve been gentle with you, Mr. Cohen. And I care not as to whether you ‘like me’ or not. In that, we are the same. You obviously care not whether you are even likeable. Shabbat Shalom and have an easy fast on Monday night/Tuesday.

There is a whole range of responses that a school can make in any given situation. Part of the school’s job is to have the good judgment to tailor the consequence to the act. Suspension may have been excessive in the case of your daughter’s video. And it would be excessive in the scenario you just described. But SOME response on the part of the school IS appropriate, because teaching kids to be decent members of a community is part of a school’s educational mission.

I think the issue really falls into 2 areas that, sadly, don’t always co-exist in our country. The first is the civil arena- individual rights- fought for and won by Mr. Cohen. The second is the Jewish arena- more about what’s good for the community and how we behave as a group.

In the cyberbullying and school power scenario a judgement has been made. But what of the moral and ethical case? What’s the ultimate judgement about how the children behaved toward each other, or how some behave toward each other on this blog? The mitzvot provide guidelines for appropriate behavior human to human. But there’s no lawsuit against someone not treating you the way you don’t want to be treated.

I prefer living along the lines of the moral-ethical arena but am thankful to live in a country where Mr. Cohen can take the civil arena on this issue.

Do me a favor and do not make any assumptions about my family history. Your words are false and obnoxious. How dare you. My grandfather was a great man, came to the United States from the Ukraine and respected the law. My father was a great lawyer and taught me well. The case at hand was a scholarly effort to learn the law regarding civil rights, submit well-written and well-researched arguments to the court, and bring about an important lesson of about the limits of governmental power.

Your insults and disrespect towards honest work, and the quest for civil rights, are disgusting to me. Where I come from, Jews fight for their rights and the rights of others. Perhaps it’s better that you don’t live here. Seriously.

Having kids who have disabilities makes us much more aware of bullying situations, since our kids are more vulnerable.

In one situation, the bully would stand on the sidewalk (which is public, as you know) and threaten my kids if they rode their trikes down to his end of the block. He brandished a knife on one occasion, and shot my then 5 year old with an air pellet gun. I reported it. His parents made up excuses and alibis and nothing could be done. These helpless situations are made worse by the, “My child can do no wrong” mentality.

We have an obligation to our kids..on both sides. The bullied need to be protected and taught to deal with bullies. The bullies need to be taught as well. They are lacking some sort of social ability, and think they are problem solving by their cruelty, in that people do what they say, or react with them.

It’s been said that “to fail tell someone how you feel denies them the opportunity to change”. Kids will be kids, but the reason we don’t call them adults yet is that they are still growing and in need of guidance.
If we deny them that guidance, they are going to do worse than they currently are.

Ah yes. Columbine. The excuse of ever incompetent administrator. “Hey, we can’t have another Columbine around here.”

One girl called another girl “spoiled.” Someone needs to know that there’s a difference between a stupid video and “Columbine.”

Notwithstanding what you WANT, the school CAN’T get involved in off-campus matters without violating constitutional rights.

Off-campus, really? Everything? Really? How about if two kids, in the middle of the summer, call each other names. Maybe one repeats the insult on Facebook that day. The first day of school, two months later, one walks into the counselor’s office and says “Johnny hurt my feelings. Johnny is a cyberbully.” You want Johnny suspended, right? Is that your solution?

Too bad. No power. Case after case is in accord. The kids are going to have to work it out themselves. The school is not a “super parent.”

Meanwhile, New York City’s Department of Education just proposed a change to the city schools’ Discipline Code: now cyberbullying (“intimidating and bullying behavior through electronic communication”) will be subject to a disciplinary beat-down. According to our indispensable local resource Inside Schools, the new version of the code will also emphasize counseling, peer mediation, and parent outreach instead of relying so much on suspensions. Which I think sounds good — does anyone learn anything from suspension except “don’t get caught”? (Or in some people’s case: TIME TO SUE.) I can see counseling and perhaps parent outreach having more impact than mediation…though of course, parent outreach won’t work if the parents are also bullies or refuse to acknowledge their child’s wrongdoing. On my personal blog I included some links to current research showing that mediation is misguided when it comes to bullying: Mediation assumes that both parties have a valid point of view, but bullying is closer to child abuse: it’s just WRONG. Zero Tolerance policies aren’t a good approach either; if the punishment for bullying is invariably huge, kids may hesitate to report bullying for fear of retaliation, and kids who bully won’t learn strategies to change their behavior — they’ll just get booted. (And if their daddies sue, not even that.)

To the parents whose children are being bullied:
1. The school has no control over what students do after school and on weekends, beyond trying to educate students about appropriate behavior. I think that’s why the court upheld the father’s complaint.

2. Take the phone or computer privilege away (from both the bully and the victim), until they become mature enough to use it properly.

IMO, the problem today is that parents are unwilling to take responsibility for teaching values to their kids. They want the schools and the rest of society to do their job. It’s like trying to ban pornography or movies or TV with things you don’t want your kid to see. TURN IT OFF. Don’t allow your kid to watch or listen. But don’t deprive the broadcasters of their First Amendment rights, or prevent me from watching adult programs if I want to.

I take two particular notes about how Mr. Cohen represents of himself through his actions and writings: In the first, it is interesting to note that he ignores the Jewish component of the discussion (as does Liel). In the second, I take note of his name – Cohen. It is a name that tells us he is the progeny of Aharon HaCohen, who is defined as ‘Ohaiv Shalom’ – lover of peace. Aharon spent his life bringing peace between people. His whole being was dedicated to healing hurt between people. His grandson Evan clearly knows nothing of this and cares less.
On the contrary. He exacerbates the hurt through astounding insensitivity and self-serving sophistry, taking cover behind an inferior set of values. He is a disgrace to his name as well as any notion of what the word ‘Law’ means. He is part of a Nation that brought Law to the world to make it better, not to use it to insulate oneself from responsibility for their actions and choices and how they impact upon another. A tragic American Jewish tale.

Further, I wonder if he ever says the ‘Shma.’ You know, the one about God is One. What does One mean? There’s no escape, everything is connected, the separations are an illusion. It is not a private a thing between parent and child, because what goes on between them gets played out and manifested once the child walks out the door of her/his home.

To be continued….

As a parent I know this: you want to stay out of it and only get between the kids (yours, yes, but even more so yours & not_yours) when they squabble when the teeter is totally tottered.

Note: What is it that the State has done, if not bullying in this case? Get cranked about that. Recognize the inordinate power the state (in the form of the School District) can wield, and how tempting it is for School Administrators to wield that power beyond their scope, and you might come at the entire matter less judgmentally. As the courts, in the end, have done. There must be a reason why the Cohens “won” this case.

Because when the State lumbers in mashing trees to catch rabbits, and it is your own child that is treated as a rodent, I can’t imagine a single parent who wouldn’t (a) uphold the rights of their own child in front of every court in the land when it was patently clear that the bullying came from the powerful arm of the state (where the upfront fees were not an issue, mind you), and (b) privately admonish the hell out of junior for acting in a way that doesn’t speak well of the family(“another fine mess” would be the least of it).

One thing that keeps coming to mind, the idea that bullies, and I’m still speaking of the behavior of the School District as bully in this vein, bullies are generally the ones that are the most afraid. What is it the Schools are so afraid of? That would be a worthwhile thread to pursue. I’d like to know.

Ranting and name-calling, here and in links posted (U235, what a cesspool your blog is) get a life. Don’t need that here, there, anywhere.

It is important that the actors here are not adults. They are children, still in formation, still learning wrong from right. Making this video was wrong. The school was right to send that message to the child who made it.

SoSad, is that the best you can do? Parrot other people’s insults? Apparently.

Unfortunately, we can’t control the behaviour of others. But we can control our own behaviour.

“B’makom she ein anshim, hishtadeil l’hiot ish,” which can be translated as, “In a place where nobody is acting human, strive to act human.”

Also as an advocate for special needs children there is tremendous evidence that these victim/children suffer from post traumatic stress disorder from the amount of bullying they endure through out school. It is society’s responsibility to ensure that these children, the most vulnerable in society, are protected from their abusers. Most are not capable of defending themseleves. They lack without question the necessary social skills to self-advocate and most do not have a posse of friends to back them up. it is why they are easy targets.

It would be very nice, if parents/adults modeled appropriate behavior for their chidlren, however, I have seen first hand parents actively egg their children on and make excuses for their childrens bullying behavior. That is why there has to be a societal code and societal “shunning” if you will for those who help promote or excuse bullying of any kind.

On another note, it is the responsibility of the school to protect and police the children in their midsts. If there is an issue outside of the school that effects their functioning in the school it is the school’s job to look into it. There are even rules and laws that govern behavior of that kind.It is a form of abuse and abuse does fall under the purview of the schools.

Interestingly, colleges and univerities are not shy about behavior/bullying codes on and off campus as well. These codes R strictly enforced. It is no joke.

I agree it is not okay for a parent to allow their child to bully others. I heartily disagree that ridicule of the parents is the answer. It’s just another form of bullying.

We need to model proper, respectful, constructive behavior to both parents and children, to demonstrate there is a healthier, more healing way to go about things.

This “hostile work environment” issue is not the legal standard regarding when schools can step in and punish. The standard is “substantial disruption,” as in the Tinker case. The defendants in the case, and many people on this board, take the issue way too far and argue that “anything” can be a “disruption” that causes hurt feelings and makes the learning environment stressful or more difficult. They want to schools to have the power to punish, to suspend, etc., for anything that one student “does” to another.

Wrong. Not constitutional. When students are outside of school, they have the same free speech rights as anyone else. People call each other names. They get into arguments. They send mean texts and emails. They post mean postings on Facebook. At night. During summer vacation. On weekends. Not at school.

Now, do you want the school to be involved in these off-campus matters? I don’t. These matters are none of the school’s business. The line must be drawn. Merely coming to school with hurt feelings is not enough to trigger governmental power. There must be disruption AT school, and the judge in this case rightly found that the school’s claims of disruption were simply not credible. They overreacted.

And, Jane, your silly little revenge fantasy about me being “sued for defamation” will not be realized. This was not defamation. This was a stupid, juvenile video of some kids talking about other kids. It happened over two years ago. No one cares anymore, it’s over.

Yom Kippur is still a couple of months away. There is still time. It is not too late.

Mr. Cohen and Elise can still apologize to each other for their treatment of each other in this comments section.

Perhaps the year has passed in which the video has posted, but Mr. Cohen’s daughter and the others in the video can still apologize to the person discussed in the video.

This is not a legal imperative; it is about doing what is right. Even if it wasn’t bullying, even if there were no complaints, the things said in the video are hurtful. They are hurtful to the people who said them, they are hurtful to the person being talked about, they are hurtful to others who watched the video.

It is about healing the community. We may hurt each other but we don’t have to just leave it at that, even when legally we have every right to do so.

It’s not too late.

Thanks for your reply, sincerely though, I am still confused. I can’t think that you intend to find a moral that says “don’t do things online that you don’t want seen” because that suggests that it’s the publicity which determines the rightness or wrongness of actions.

Sometimes it’s better to be kind than right.

It is beyond me how someone could be so callous in an age where the media have made the public aware of bullied kids who commit suicide.
However, it is truly heartening to read the very thoughtful and literate responses from readers.

Your rights stop where I begin. Nobody’s shooting the messenger, whose messenger was she? Whose messenger is Mr. Cohen?

The real message here is don’t do things online that you don’t want seen. And apparently, Mr. Cohen is preventing his daughter and himself from learning that lesson.

How is the target of their unpleasantness a victim of Mr Cohen’s daughter rather than being a victim of the girls who made the remarks Mr Cohen’s daughter recorded?

And why all the unpleasantness directed at Mr Cohen here? He calls out someone who claims to be a lawyer because she can’t spell and because her insults are idiotic. Is there a law against reasonably suspecting a fool to be a fool, and saying so?

And why the baiting? Answer the question, etc. After the first couple of paras into the NYT report, the question is answered. Considering this is an article apparently concerned with bullying, it’s ironic that reading is more onerous than name calling.

Is all this nothing so much as shoot the messenger?

In my experience, creating a “hostile work environment” goes against the law, and certainly against justice. Cyberbullying creates that hostile work environment, just as surely as doing it in person. This is an environment that the victim is required to attend every day, and in which God knows how many classmates have seen the video (though it’s obvious SHE did – harm done right there, to high school kids with significant peer group insecurity and dependence) and how many Facebook or Twitter sharings that video received…

In my humble opinion, we need to revisit creating a hostile environment for that child, not call each other names. That profits no one, Mr. Cohen. Nor do letters, diplomas and degrees determine intelligence. Never have, never will. We’re talking about the right of a student to attend and learn at school without the gossipy nasty trashtalk virally spread throughout a peer group she’s stuck with.

Though I appreciate that the school possibly shouldn’t have intervened with their own punishment, I do believe that they should have made you award of the situation that your daughter was creating a hostile environment for the victim, and that you should have responded by having her make an apology video and “share” it in all the ways she “shared” the original video.

I like keeping schools out of our private lives. The victim’s parents should have sued you and your daughter directly, for defamation of character and harassment. Maybe they didn’t know they could, I don’t know. I also like though, that the school at least made you aware, which is in their jurisdiction.

Evan, you are technically right on the legal issue. But that kind of interaction between students is ABSOLUTELY the school’s business, since it creates, well, let’s call it a “hostile school environment” for the child who is the target of the video. Your daughter’s school may not have had the right to suspend her, but it definitely should have addressed the matter in some way.

And you are right that discussions between a parent and child are private. But you have chosen to participate in the public discussion, and you feed the flames by refusing to acknowledge that your daughter was wrong in any way. Even if the school district’s act was illegal, the video was still immoral. The school’s illegal action does not cancel out your daughter’s fault.

Moreover, your description of the situation is not very credible. Who puts up a mean video, then immediately turns the the victim and offers to take it down? Why would the victim tell her to leave it up? It just doesn’t make sense. So, once again, your comments won’t cause anyone to change their minds on the situation.

And don’t think it’s because the non-lawyers just don’t understand. I don’t know about Elise, but I graduated from NYU Law. And despite being a lawyer, I still think there is more to this than the legal issue.

Now, let’s get back to you, Elise. What is the name of the law school you attended? Or, let’s talk about why you feel you need to lie about going to law school. Does it make you feel important?

Go ahead, Elise. What’s your law school, idiot? Right. You didn’t go to one. You’re also a liar. Go ahead. Prove me wrong. Name it. And the graduating year. Go ahead. I’ll wait right here.

And I’ve already won the argument.

And, if she were a lawyer, she would have read the Court’s decision, written by Judge Wilson, a Reagan appointee and generally considered to be a judicial conservative. As can be gleaned by the excellent summary of cases therein, school districts have been losing cases like this all over the country, notwithstanding the abundance of right-wing, authoritarian personalities like Elise. Get over it, Elise, you hack. No “substantial interference.” Sorry. If it were up to you, one “mean” text message would land a student in irons, rights revoked, sitting at home, suspended, or, as you apparently want, in jail. You sicken me.

And I know you are not a lawyer, because you would know that libel and slander cases are only meritorious if they contain a provably false assertion of fact, which this video did not. Calling someone “spoiled” is not libel or slander, Elise. If there’s any suit to be brought, it’s against the law school who let an ignorant fool like you out to prey upon an unsuspecting public. Maybe you can get your money back.

Let’s hear it, Elise. Name your law school and the graduating year, so we can verify your claim.