Comments on: Shatnez Shock

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By: moshe

moshe — Fri, 29 Apr 2011 21:41:39 +0000

you all have it wrong.and no i am not arrogant or haughty.THE TORAH NEVER INTENDED FOR US TO UNDERSTAND A CHOK. that is just the point. if you mock it or deride it or call it archaic ..who cares ..no one including Solomon the Wise could understand a chok.it is g-d’s will.just
do it.you take your cancer medications even if you do not understand it.you have faith in your doctors even though they are constantly reversing themselves.but who would begrudge a cancer patient of their faith?…i wish this sick old world would stop begrudging all of us who recognize our sad condition, of the faith we have in g-d’s love of his people and humanity. don’t mock shatnes. it might come back to bite you.

By: Simon

Simon — Wed, 02 Mar 2011 04:29:25 +0000

This may be too late for J. Davis to read, but I don’t believe you need to extrapolate beyond what the Torah (in the full sense, according to Rabbinic teachings) prescribes or proscribes. It is for that reason we have the laws as they are–to teach us the necessary limits. Otherwise you’ll go crazy trying to find them. This is the common complaint of non-observant Jews, that the religious take things to no end, but that’s in their eyes. It is for this reason, too, that we take the laws as hukkim, because reasons can be twisted to no end–either adding unnecessary stringencies or abandoning the laws altogether through reason, as many modern interpretations of Judaism do in part or full. A common example: “In those days, you had to collect wood for fire and strike rocks together and it took a lot of work, but today…” …you still have no permission to light a fire. But you can set lights to timers.

By: J. Davis

J. Davis — Sun, 12 Sep 2010 23:36:40 +0000

I am a Torah observant gentile searching for truth. I recently started changing my wardrobe over to 100% linen thinking I was doing good only to be saddened at the realization that these store-bought garments are made with mostly poly/cotton mix and other synthetic threads for the seams,hems,ect. A theme throughout the Scriptures is keeping separate from the “unclean”, not mixing this, not mixing that for what ever reason. It seems the mentioning of mixing linen and wool was just ONE example being listed. To go with the “theme” of other passages it seems clear we should stay away from wearing any garment made with ANY kind of MIXED threads.

By: VHJM van Neerven

VHJM van Neerven — Wed, 25 Aug 2010 01:04:04 +0000

I am extremely curious:
Author seems to think khaki is a material like wool; or a weave like denim and corduroy are.
Wherever did one get the notion of khaki being something like that??
Khaki is a color, or even quite a variety of colors, as far as I have ever known. And I am not so young now.

By: The Postman

The Postman — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 02:25:33 +0000

Witty and bright article. Interesting how some readers moved into a serious realm that was certainky unintended. I enjoy reading comments to Tablet articles. And Greenberg–lighten up!

By: Wendy

Wendy — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:26:53 +0000

Marjorie-

Thanks for taking me back to a time when I had to deal with my youngest daughter’s “bunchie sock” syndrome. I spent what seemed like years and years of my life smoothing down socks, shopping for shoes that felt just right and pulling boots on and off multiple times before heading out into the snow. Who knew from sensitivity issues? I thought my daughter was just a tad crazy. In spite of that, I took her discomfort level seriously enough to honor and respect her feelings. This allowed us to keep the “chaos at bay” and come up with many unique lessons which developed her problem solving skills.

PS. Today, as an adult, my daughter still wears her socks inside out to avoid the toe seam. And I eventually realized she wasn’t a tad crazy.

By: Sarah

Sarah — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:03:09 +0000

Delighted to see shatnes addressed here thoughtfully and with humor. We took it on too, visually – check it: http://www.g-dcast.com/tetzaveh

By: Binke

Binke — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:11:40 +0000

I particularly like the Cain and Abel explanation but instead of using that as an excuse to indulge in prohibitions, that should be the very reason to come together. For until and unless we set aside some of our centuries old prejudices there will never be peace in the Middle East.

By: Zelda

Zelda — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 13:51:05 +0000

Greenberg
You are a sick individual who bears out the reason for horban bayit sheni: sina’t chinam

By: David Star

David Star — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 13:20:27 +0000

What a lovely, delightfully written examination of a “Chok” which we have lived with for generations, along with the many thou shalts and shalt nots.
Also Kol Hakavod to the many comments the article aroused.Learned, witty and informative.

By: David Harmon

David Harmon — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:14:44 +0000

Wonderful article! I can feel for your daughter’s sensory issues — let’s just say I had the reason figured out by halfway through your list of forbidden items.

You comment “In ancient times and today—aren’t the sacred and the profane often awfully close together?”

Definitely! The common element is _tabu_ — the untouchable, the forbidden. Holy or unholy, the _tabu_ represents something that’s dangerous to contact, either because it’s anathema to one’s god(s) — or privileged, reserved for the temple or other trappings of the god. Either way, the magical aspect is the same — those who violate the prohibition have disrupted the boundaries of spiritual life — since that challenges the authority of the priests, it Must be Punished.

And yes, one culture’s holy thing is often forbidden to their rivals, and early Judaism did a *lot* of that. Much of the Kashruth is about differentiating the early Hebrews from their neighbors and competitors.

By: Chanah Yael bat Avraham

Chanah Yael bat Avraham — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 05:59:11 +0000

B”H
I appreciated this thoughtful and thought provoking article. While some may think the author ridiculing our Torah tradition, I believe she was simply acting as we all should: think about the whys we do what we do. This method of Jewish self-discovery plays a role in our ability to survive several thousands of years with a message to tell. We are definately a peculiar but wonderful people. — As for Rivkah bat David’s comments, I love your statement that HaShem is our sufficiency. While I love what great minds have provided about the Lulav, I humbly differ with those teaching the lulav represents the personalities of B’Nei Israel. I believe the four kinds represent Who HaShem is to His people. The resilient strong weather proof palm provides shelter from rain and shade from sun; the tree bends and often survives the strong storm –> He alone is our Shelter. The myrtle has astringent properties used medicinally to cleanse and some varieties have a soap-like property –> He alone is our Salvation. The willow provides a substance from which comes aspirin which subdues pain, fever, blood clots, and heart attacks –> He alone is our Healer. The etrog –> smells wonderful the bright color makes us happy, the taste a bit sweet yet bitter, and its meat filled with life sustaining vitamins, minerals, and water. –> He alone is our Sustenance. To grown a straight beautiful etrog, the tree limb must be gently bowed for the fruit to hang straight down…bend it too far, it breaks…so to speak, a bending of wills in order to bear good fruit. We wave our Lulav to every corner of the Earth and Universe…to the skies above and to earth below. If one believes in Lulav personalities theory, perhaps our waving means to “release” ourselves to HaShem’s Will and Care…perhaps, our waving means our teaching Torah to the World…perhaps, it is simply a means to Praise Him with the simplest items…simple remainder, too, that the poor live simply so give charity.

By: Norman Kabak

Norman Kabak — Tue, 20 Jul 2010 03:39:59 +0000

Wonderful article, articulate and the comments too, save for one Griper are reasonable.
I recall, as a little boy buying a suit at Barney’s, and having it tested for shatnez. Those were the days when you would have a pair of long and short pants to go with the jacket. don’t remember the price though.

An easy fast to all.

By: marjorie

marjorie — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:06:31 +0000

As a semi-aside, I remember that long ago at the dawn of the Interwebs I emailed a question to Ask the Rabbi about genetic engineering — this was back when there was talk about splicing a pig gene into a tomato. Would such a tomato be kosher? The rabbi’s answer was yes, because the gene would have undergone so much change in the engineering process. Now I think about that same question from a broader perspective and wonder whether any “mixing” procedure would be in accordance with Jewish ethics. What if such intermingling proves dangerous to the environment or to people with allergies or to other species in ways we haven’t considered yet?

By: HaSoferet

HaSoferet — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:54:28 +0000

I’ve always found it odd that many in the traditional Jewish world are content to believe that HaShem’s revealed wisdom stopped with the Torah. If HaShem indeed created us all he made us into what we have become. That includes the millennia of human intellectual development that has resulted in scientific discovery and other kinds of creativity. As long as such discoveries are used for the good of human kind I say that HaShem intended for us to make them and use them.

By: Ian Campbell

Ian Campbell — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:49:18 +0000

A possible reason that shatnez was prohibited could be the same reason that the special “holy anointing oil” was forbidden to be reproduced, it was for holy use only. Now Josephus says that the curtain or veil seperating the Holy Place from the Holy of Holies was made of materials, plural???

By: Ms. K

Ms. K — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:43:56 +0000

@Rivkah bat David,
Indeed, I would agree – the modern-day interpretation of shatnez would seem to forbid genetic engineering, i.e. the transferring of genes between species.

A more traditional reading would say that it exemplifies the Jewish view that man must seek to bring order into the world. Separation and purity increase holiness.

By: Jay

Jay — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:18:31 +0000

Many of these prohibitions arose as a means or reminder that we are a separate people. Some, I think, are based on not treating animals in a cruel fashion. Others, prohibit appearing like our non-Jewish neighbors. How the Rabbi’s have extrapolated these messages into laws for everyday life in modern times, are many times questionable to me.

By: Rivkah bat David

Rivkah bat David — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:18:26 +0000

Leviticus 19.19 gives us three admonitions. Don’t let the cattle interbreed; don’t sow our fields with mixed seeds; and don’t wear a garment of mixed materials.
Considering all three, it appears to me these teach us something about purity, and they teach us that HaShem has provided all that we need. If we needed a Liger, or a Chiweenie, He would have created one (oops, two of each!). If we needed cotton/polyester, He would have created such a tree. He is our sufficiency, and He has provided everything we need. Whatever the other benefits of shatnetz, this certainly could be one.

By: Greenberg

Greenberg — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:07:04 +0000

I find this article mean and mean-spirited, ridiculing Jewish tradition for no good reason that is apparent, and I am surprised that people who consider themselves cultured would want to read a magazine like this.
I am ashamed when I see a fellow humans express themselves in a way that mocks the beliefs of others.

By: HaSoferet

HaSoferet — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:54:13 +0000

Linsey-woolsey, a fabric made of linen and wool and used to make clothing and quilts, was in wide use in Colonial America.

By: Ralbam

Ralbam — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:41:24 +0000

Keep in mind that “shatnez” has a quadriliteral root (not the typical Semitic three letter shoresh) indicating probable foreign origin.
Also keep in mind that many of these exotic prohibitions were simply reactions against specific pagan temple rituals.

The milk/meat separation practice is one example. In the early 1950′s excavations at a Canaanite site near Ras Shamra on the south coast of Lebanon yielded a text describing a temple ritual of boiling a kid in its mother’s milk on the altar. It used language remarkably similar to the Torah. Clearly the Torah text is admonishing the Bnei Yisrael not to behave as their idol-worshipping neighbors did. Voila, a couple of millenia later we cant’s eat a cheeseburger, thanks to centuries of collective rabbinical amnesia.

Find an ancient culture in the region that prescribed ritual garments woven of mixed species and look for a word like shatnez in their linguistic archives and we’re likely to find a similar explanation.

By: Roisin Gorman

Roisin Gorman — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:48:06 +0000

I had a scarf knitted for a soldier who went to Afghanistan last winter. The military has guidelines that scarves or other knitted/crocheted items MUST be all natural fiber, no acrylic blends even if blended with wool because the acrylic will melt onto the soldier’s skin if they are next to hot equipment. Now there’s a modern-day reason for not mixing/blending yarns. However I think it is more involved with the prohibition of not mixing paganism with Judaism so a modern-day equivalent would be do not mix eastern mysticism or horoscopes, magic arts, tatooing, tarot cards, fortune telling, amulets etc with Judaism. G-d and pagan practices don’t mix. That’s what got the House of Israel, then later on the House of Judah expelled from Eretz Israel.

By: Barry A. Swan

Barry A. Swan — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:43:38 +0000

M. Ingall writes: ” Another explanation is that shatnez hearkens back to the offerings Cain and Abel brought to God. One brought flax (the source of linen) and the other brought a sheep (the source of wool), and look how well their story came out. So, uh, let’s not do that.” Well, why not?
The origin of the Jewish people lies in an environment where there were both herders (wool and skins) and farmers (linen and eventually cotton). These two groups did not get along. They each wanted to use the land in their own way and the other’s way became a sacrilege. Think of the cattlemen and the nesters on the American frontier and their fights which were the plot of many cowboys movies and TV programs. These fights were often quite vicious.
So it is not strange that these conflicts found their way into traditional Jewish stories.

By: Alexander Diamond

Alexander Diamond — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:11:38 +0000

So if I call shatnez a meaningless crock that makes me an anti-Semite?

By: Stop Arab Imperalism

Stop Arab Imperalism — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:00:03 +0000

It’s very nice to find an informative article on Tablet with love of Torah and lack of anti-Semitism.